Journal of chinese Medicine. Number 90. June 2009 Chinese Medicine in the West 2009 fluids, zangfu, trigger point acupuncture? That's the differentiation of patterns, because if a patient has a turning point I always think, for students, when they pounding shi headache from uprising of Liver yang, start to grasp the potential of Chinese medicine; how there are certain types of causes, lifestyle behaviours, to understand the person and the configuration thats that are likely to lead to it that are different to if in front of them they have a dull, permananently aching headache. Differentiation of patterns for me was a brilliant HM: I think that's the key point for me, understanding shortcut to clarifying what factors in a patients life how a person works. That sounds very mechanistic, might contribute to that particular problem, and but i don 't mean it in a mechanistic sense then feeding them back to the patient, being able to say "from the perspective of Chinese medicine, VS: Mechanistic is part of it we would say such and such", and I always found that was important for the patient in two ways. One HM: Yes, but its more than just being mechanistic, its an because it explained something to them that they understanding, and I think that it comes back to the understood pretty quickly, and the other, and this principles and theories that drive the medicine, that was the interesting thing, if the conclusion was for ually have something to offer that really resonates example'you're too tired and you never rest, you're ith patients, when we explain it to them. People doing everything at a stressful level,, they would come to see us when they re stuck- they feel a brick say yes my family is always telling me that, and wall. They have relentless migraines, or an irritable my friends are always telling me that, and yet their bowel that won,'t stop, or whatever it is. We have to friends and family were telling them and it didnt reconfigure our understanding collectively -me and make any difference -it was background noise. It the patient -about what's going on for them, in was only when they came for a consultation and it way that they can suddenly say, aha that's what's was fed back to them in this different setting, that it going on. And this might not take one session, it suddenly had might take a series of sessions, and there will be other factors in a person's life that are feeding that problem VS: But thats an unspecific thing, you know that could in some way. Why else have they hit a brick wall at a shaman, or a biomedical doctor this point in time? PD: I'm suggesting the route to it is through chinese PD: What do you think is unique about Chinese medicine medicine in that process? FM: I like the expression "being forensic". To me Chinese HM: For me it's a combination of the theories of chinese medicine has this forensic component, and thats medicine like zangfu differentiation, as well as what I remember Dr Shen teaching. He absolutely understanding qi and stuckness-what's going on in showed it through his diagnostic methods-he'dlook the body. I do a lot of palpation-hands-on work that at people, feel the pulse and put it together and work brings a persons attention to their body and helps it out, and so could go from the pattern backwards to reconnect the mind and body. When they understand the cause and forwards to the treatment better what's going on, theres theres some PD: Absolutely, it looked like magic. VS: Would that be the same if I was a homoeopath and I FM: But he could explain how he did it, that was the tell them"you're a silica type"? Wouldn,'t that help difference. that was what was so wonderful. Thats them in the same way? when i decided that this is the medicine i want to know about, and I think ' forensic is something I would like to say from my own experience I feel Chinese medicine is able to do. It's as volker differentiation of pattern was always terribly was saying: when you can,'t work it out, when your important because, taking from the old Communist treatment isn't working, it's how you move from text books, it leads forwards to the treatment and there. And I think thats the difference, not just backwards to the cause. We know there are all kinds applying another treatment randomly; you work out of lifestyle problems that can lead to disharmony how you might change your treatment. That to me and disease. The question is, which are the key ones, might be the key to what Chinese medicine has the and one might arrive at that through intuition, one ability to do ght arrive at it through a high level of empathy, but a fairly reliable way to arrive at it is through HM: I think that this 'wow moment can happen in anyJournal of Chinese Medicine • Number 90 • June 2009 Chinese Medicine in the West 2009 13 fluids, zangfu, trigger point acupuncture? That’s the turning point I always think, for students, when they start to grasp the potential of Chinese medicine; how to understand the person and the configuration that’s in front of them. HM: I think that’s the key point for me, understanding how a person works. That sounds very mechanistic, but I don’t mean it in a mechanistic sense. VS: Mechanistic is part of it. HM: Yes, but its more than just being mechanistic, its an understanding, and I think that it comes back to the principles and theories that drive the medicine, that actually have something to offer that really resonates with patients, when we explain it to them. People come to see us when they’re stuck – they feel a brick wall. They have relentless migraines, or an irritable bowel that won’t stop, or whatever it is. We have to reconfigure our understanding collectively – me and the patient – about what’s going on for them, in a way that they can suddenly say, ‘aha that’s what’s going on’. And this might not take one session, it might take a series of sessions, and there will be other factors in a person’s life that are feeding that problem in some way. Why else have they hit a brick wall at this point in time? PD: What do you think is unique about Chinese medicine in that process? HM: For me it’s a combination of the theories of Chinese medicine like zangfu differentiation, as well as understanding qi and stuckness ‑ what’s going on in the body. I do a lot of palpation ‑ hands‑on work that brings a person’s attention to their body and helps reconnect the mind and body. When they understand better what’s going on, there’s hope, there’s some way out. VS: Would that be the same if I was a homoeopath and I tell them “you’re a silica type”? Wouldn’t that help them in the same way? PD: I would like to say from my own experience – differentiation of pattern was always terribly important because, taking from the old Communist text books, it leads forwards to the treatment and backwards to the cause. We know there are all kinds of lifestyle problems that can lead to disharmony and disease. The question is, which are the key ones, and one might arrive at that through intuition, one might arrive at it through a high level of empathy, but a fairly reliable way to arrive at it is through differentiation of patterns, because if a patient has a pounding shi headache from uprising of Liver yang, there are certain types of causes, lifestyle behaviours, that are likely to lead to it that are different to if they have a dull, permananently aching headache. Differentiation of patterns for me was a brilliant shortcut to clarifying what factors in a patient’s life might contribute to that particular problem, and then feeding them back to the patient, being able to say “from the perspective of Chinese medicine, we would say such and such”, and I always found that was important for the patient in two ways. One because it explained something to them that they understood pretty quickly, and the other, and this was the interesting thing, if the conclusion was for example ‘you’re too tired and you never rest, you’re doing everything at a stressful level’, they would say yes my family is always telling me that, and my friends are always telling me that, and yet their friends and family were telling them and it didn’t make any difference – it was background noise. It was only when they came for a consultation and it was fed back to them in this different setting, that it suddenly had meaning. VS: But that’s an unspecific thing, you know that could be a shaman, or a biomedical doctor. PD: I’m suggesting the route to it is through Chinese medicine. FM: I like the expression “being forensic”. To me Chinese medicine has this forensic component, and that’s what I remember Dr. Shen teaching. He absolutely showed it through his diagnostic methods – he’d look at people, feel the pulse and put it together and work it out, and so could go from the pattern backwards to the cause, and forwards to the treatment. PD: Absolutely, it looked like magic. FM: But he could explain how he did it, that was the difference, that was what was so wonderful. That’s when I decided that this is the medicine I want to know about, and I think ‘forensic’ is something I feel Chinese medicine is able to do. It’s as Volker was saying; when you can’t work it out, when your treatment isn’t working, it’s how you move from there. And I think that’s the difference, not just applying another treatment randomly; you work out how you might change your treatment. That to me might be the key to what Chinese medicine has the ability to do. HM: I think that this ‘wow’ moment can happen in any